United Chicago, I see you lurking here. Come on back and stop the foolishness!! You empower those who got to you. Most of us appreciate your articulations.

This name is just plain stupid. Both Jet Blue and Song state that young females are making more and buying decisions on leasure air travel, so I guess TED must be attractive name for to lure young, hip female to buy their products.

Why dosen't United have an airline for the Young hip guys, and call it UNI. They can run the same type of advertisning that Uniroyal tires did years ago. They had three spokes people UNI-Roy-Al. If I remember correctly it was a huge flop.

TED sounds that stupid as well

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

I like the name. In a time when UAL needs a light moment, this provides great marketing and advertising opportunities. Immediately TED needs a young hip spokesman...someone who can do for TED and UNITED what Steve did for DELL. Wow, my juices are flowing and I don't even work there.

How about Dick Ferris?

You mean make me rush for the remote the instant the ad starts? 'Cause that's what that "Dell dude" moron did for me!
And then we'll wait for the "Ted guy" to get busted for possession of a controlled substance...

I know a number of persons in this company will really bad mouth Dick Ferris.

Quite a number of years ago, a certain Customer Service Agent was in the hospital with cancer. His number came up for furlough. At the time, that meant lost of all medical benefits.

Two female Customer Service Agents felt it was not right to furlough him in his time of need. That evening, they sent a message to Mr. Ferris concerning the situation.

By 10:00 AM the next morning there was a reply posted on the bulletin board. It said: "Mr. XXXXXXX is to be retained in excess until further notice. Signed, Dick Ferris."

Also, no one should forget who closed the deal for the Pacific Operation.

As for TED, I love it.

I was gonna mention Uni Roy and Al, but I figured that no one else would remember it!

As for Ted, think "Ted Baxter" arrogant, self important, clueless and laughable.

Forced hipness is just sad.

Wonder if Beauvais is gonna call "Roam" something like "Embezzle-air"

A picture of the new "Ted" color scheme appeared in Wednesday's editions of the Wall Street Journal and Rocky Mountain News. The article in the RMN provided some additional details not mentioned in the UAL press release.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/busi...2421594,00.html

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/busi...2421607,00.html

Here's an even better picture:

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,1360,...Link=%2Fairline

In Wednesday's Plane Business Banter, Holly Hegeman noted that her sources indicate that the new mainline livery shares several aspects with the new Ted livery. It's obvious that the "tulip logo" is retained and the lettering on the aircraft will now match the lettering used everywhere else. I'm guessing the tails on the mainline aircraft will be just like those on Ted's planes, except in blue.

TED huh? Like in liquida"TED"?

cute....not.
At least United is thinking outside the box. Inovaation is hard for some of the dinosaaur airlines.

Here is TED in Blue, Orange and White! I hope that TED is a success for United.

It was just a joke. Lighten up.

So, will the pilots be saying to the tower "Ted on Arrival"

I don't mean to be terminally negative but do they drug test management?

I can't get the parts or "working" tools to do the job I'm supposed to do here. United no longer cleans nor maintains their aircraft properly, they pay their employees at the bottom of the industry scale and now, by spending the money to repaint and reconfigure 45 A-320's they can somehow magically create a "low cost" carrier susidiary that will ultimately compete against it's own parent. I hope the cost of doing this goes against the marketing budget and not against the maintenance budget but somehow I doubt it.

We lose money on every seat but we'll make it up on volume.

Obviously I'm a bit prejudiced but even so, I must admit that I think UAL has finally gotten themselves thinking outside the proverbial box! Good time to do it. I like the name, even though at first I thought it silly.

I compare the name to good scotch. If you just swallow it down fast you miss the flavor of it. But swish it around your mouth a bit and it begins to grow on you. Similar comparison can be made with TED. At first it seems a bit silly. But, when you begin to unpeel the layers of marketing and thought that went into it it then makes a lot of sense. At least it isn't sickingly conservative. And kudo's to the design team on the livery. Very sharp. Fits in nice with the product line.

That's all I've got.

Cheers,
Z

My God, this is hopeless

unpeel the layers of marketing and thought ?

Earth to Zman.....

TED ???
Like United huh !
Guess so United without U - N - I. It's sounds about right for the many laid off.

At least they have one thing on the site right "Meet TED" kind of like UAL management "Meathead".

kcabpilot,

Sorry to rain on your parade of doom and gloom for UAL and of course only time will tell if this is a good move or not, but this is pretty good work by the folks (at least some of them) in the puzzle palace.

Marketing....you know what that is right? Well if not let me explain. UAL blitzes the Denver market for a period of weeks with a very clever campaign garnering lots of interest in somebody, something called.... TED. No one knows what it is but suddenly their morning latte's are suddenly free, flowers show up unexpectedly, cheesecake desserts are gratus...all courtesy of this TED thing? Guess what happens. Suddenly the press is full of these stories telling of these events and many more like them. All favorable.

Then it's slowly, deliberately, leaked out that you know who...UAL is behind it all! Wow, what great press, favorable, and to a certain extent....FREE! Now, Mr. Doom and Gloom, how would you get the same results or bang for the buck?

Your naivete in such matters overwhelms me! But, I'm sure you've got the secret handshake that allows you, and you only, the complete view of the big picture.

I think you had it wrong in your last signoff. How about this....EARTH TO KCABPILOT! YGBSM!

Cheers,
Z

Zman

Free latte's and flowers?

Try setting up three Kollsman air data testers and not finding one that works so you can get the C check done on one of these Airbuses that good 'ol ted is gonna use. Try walking around the maintenance hangar for half an hour looking for a friggin' extension chord.

All this is going to be solved with free latte's and flowers eh?

Man, you are right - I am soooo naive

Yeah, like you really do anything....jeez, every pilot knows all you do is press a couple of buttons and "PRESTO!!!!" the computers do all the rest...sort of like their flying....

The only thing I fly is a KCAB and it ain't got no buttons

I hope the box is not part of a five lot.

I have not been positive on the Lcc but I hope it works out.

Just came back from a cruise in the Caribbean.
Maybe the airlines should look at how they operate. Service was great. The biggest reason is because the employees pay comes from gratuities of the passengers.

Airline employees have a hard time realizing that their tips are built into their paycheck, so they do not feel compelled to be extra nice to customers.

Cruise days are hard times for non rev flying, and when I asked one CSR if it would be difficult to get some ID 95's for another carrier, she said yes.
Watching her working with the rest of the public explains why some passengers choose other airlines to travel on. She never smiled or seemed happy checking people in. I wonder what her personallity would have been like if tips were involved?

After the first trip left full without us, I asked another agent working the gate if there was a slow time to get ID 95's at the ticket counter. She was very nice and said to meet her at the counter and she would make them out for us.
Standing in line again I watched her working with the public, and I could see why customers would come back to us. She deffinately enjoyed her job and working with people. She got it!
It was like looking at two different universes watching both CSR's.working there.
Maybe this is a box they should look into.

I have enjoyed reading this thread. TED

Something to ponder when things seems to be getting the best of us.


When things in your life seem almost to much to handle, when 24 hours in a day are not enough, remember the mayonnaise jar........and the beer.

A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly, he picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.

So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full.
The students responded with an unanimous "yes."

The professor then produced two cans of beer from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar, effectively filling the empty Space between the sand. The students laughed. "Now," said the professor, as the laughter subsided, "I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things your family, your children, your health, your friends, your favorite passions--things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full.

The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, your car. The sand is everything else--the small stuff. If you put the sand into the jar first," he continued, "there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls.

The same goes for life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house, and fix the disposal. Take care of the golf balls first, the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the beer represented. The rofessor smiled. "I'm glad you asked. It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may seem, there's always room for a couple of beers." :-)

[QUOTE]Just who the he11 do you thik you are refering to UAL's professional F/A's as "galley hags"?
UAL (along with pretty much everybody else) is ALREADY a Low fair carrier.
The routes UAL chose, where chosen for a REASON, they all had very LITTLE "premium" (First class) passengers.
UAL added 18 seats per jet. Do the math, that alone lowers CASM by approx 15% for those seats.
UAL posted an operating profit while in BK with the new pay rates and work rules. UAL even took back (YOY) pacific market share from NWA (despite being in BK).
It takes 2 FRNT pilots to fly one 132 seat A319 (or 114 seat A318)
It takes two UAL pilots to fly one 156 A320 (that actually has MORE legroom...)
UAL's FF program is far superior
The additional revenue base more than outweighs the higher UAL wages


Ok, so here is a reply from a close discussion.
so first of all if UA and every other carrier were low far carriers there would not be the high walk up fares that are still out there. The would not be all these first class seat flying around.
UA chose the routes because they are going head to head with Frontier, that was the only reason, they are trying to defend their home turf just as DL is doing with Airtran and what AA did with the others they ran out.
An operating profit is not a real true profit like the other airlines have posted. Go back and figure in dept payments, interest payments and all the other payments that your DIP group don't count but every other accounting firm and group counts. Who care about an operating profit when they are not large enough to continue to pay the bills.
It is evident how many pilots it takes to fly a plane but what was said was a lcc run by a major has never worked nor will it ever work. the high cost structure to support the lcc is flawed math. 40 planes can not save a 500-600 plane airline.
UA FF program superior to who's? all the lcc, you are correct but CO, and AA are far superior to UA. Seems advantage is the largest for a reason, and CO seems to always out rank UA in the surveys of the ff participants.
what additional revenue base? being able to sell more seats for a loss on creates more cash flow, more in, but even more out. look at us, look at failed tw, look at the fair sales going on now. they are only there to stimulate traffic and get some extra cash in and nothing more.

"An operating profit is not a real true profit like the other airlines have posted. Go back and figure in dept payments, interest payments and all the other payments that your DIP group don't count but every other accounting firm and group counts. Who care about an operating profit when they are not large enough to continue to pay the bills."

Uh, an "operating profit" at UAL is the same as an "operating profit" at any other airline, except for one HUGE exception. UAL's operating profit INCLUDES debits for bills they'll never pay, and INCLUDES higher lease rates that WILL go down.

"what additional revenue base? being able to sell more seats for a loss on creates more cash flow, more in, but even more out."

Uh, even more out?! . An A320 pilot gets paid the same whether he has 138 seats or 156 seats. The airplane costs the same (minor diff because of config), and The engines burn the same kind of gas. By your logic, UAL should put only one seat in every jet. Boy, that'd lower loses....

Ted tests UAL's skill at trimming costs - Will 18 more seats keep it flying?

By Paul Merrion - November 24, 2003

CHCAGO (Crain's Business News) - The marketing hoopla surrounding Ted obscures the fundamental question of whether United Airlines' new high-concept, low-fare airline-within-an-airline can compete profitably with fast-growing discount rivals.

As it prepares for takeoff from Denver to 12 vacation destinations in February, Ted is flying into a stiff head wind of skepticism about its ability to bring costs in line with lower fares.

"It could be even less profitable than the main line," says Robert Mann Jr., an aviation consultant in Port Washington, N.Y. "If the costs aren't much less and the revenues are much less, the economics aren't as good as for the main line."

Skeptics note that United still has higher costs than any low-fare airline, even after Elk Grove Township-based parent UAL Corp. laid off almost one-fourth of its workforce and won $5 billion in labor concessions and other annual cost savings in Bankruptcy Court over the past year.

United is the latest of many struggling airlines to spin off a low-fare venture in recent years, none of which — including Shuttle by United, which was shut down in late 2001 — have succeeded against the all-discount carriers, such as Dallas-based Southwest Airlines.

The 1½-cent difference

As of Sept. 30, United's costs were 9.88 cents per available seat-mile, an industry benchmark measuring costs across every mile each seat is flown, vs. 8.34 cents for Frontier Airlines, its main rival at Denver.

That penny-and-a-half puts United's costs more than 18% higher than Frontier's. "That could make a big difference," says New York-based Blaylock & Partners analyst Ray Neidl.

Although United's unions refused to work under separate, lower pay scales, company officials insist that Ted will bring its costs in line with discount competitors'.

Ted's costs "will be lower than the restructured" United's costs, says Sean Donohue, UAL's vice-president in charge of the low-cost carrier. "Where we're deploying (Ted), we'll be cost-competitive with other airlines in that market."

Ted's game plan is to remove the first class section and install 18 more seats on its Airbus A320 planes, increasing revenue-generating capacity about 11%. However, labor costs per flight also will go up because federal safety rules require a fourth flight attendant to cover the added seating.

"The revenue contribution of 18 additional seats significantly exceeds the cost of an additional flight attendant," says Mr. Donohue. "We're very confident we'll fill those seats."

Finding online savings

United is counting on marketing buzz and a simplified fare structure to steer customers to Ted's Web site, saving fees charged to the airline for tickets sold through other channels.

But Ted's major challenge will be to fly planes upwards of 11 hours a day — two hours more than the main carrier's average — cramming in more flights with shorter stops.

That means management and employees will have to work harder and smarter to get planes in and out of airports faster.

United is planning new procedures, such as using both the plane's front and rear doors for passenger boarding and departing, but it's just starting to discuss with employees and union officials what the new airline will entail. If nothing else, Ted represents a chance for a fresh start in United's long history of labor-management turmoil.

"A lot of employees are happier if they're kept busy, as long as it's not back-breaking work," says Ira Levy, assistant general chairman for the International Assn. of Machinists in Denver, which represents baggage handlers and other airport workers. "It's become obvious to employees that the jury's going to be out on Ted, internally and externally, until it produces."

Chip good thing you are here to but in big bold letters the real important stuff. Otherwise us dumb UAL employees wouldn't be able to figure out things for ourselves.

Just curious though why you chose to put this part in bold:

However, labor costs per flight also will go up because federal safety rules require a fourth flight attendant to cover the added seating.

...as opposed to, oh I don't know, for example, say, this:

"The revenue contribution of 18 additional seats significantly exceeds the cost of an additional flight attendant," says Mr. Donohue. "We're very confident we'll fill those seats."

Will Ted succeed? Who knows. However it actually wouldn't surprise me if it is less profitable than mainline as a whole, since it is especially designed for and will be operated on lower yield routes. As has been pointed out to you before, it's main purpose is mainly to protect market share from the LCCs on those routes. It may very well not be as profitable per unit as the mainline as a whole (which, BTW, apparently isn't doing too badly right now in terms of operating profit, much to your chagrin no doubt) since it will be operated on those low yield routes. But it WILL be more profitable than mainline would be if mainline were to continue to operate on those same routes. THAT is the point.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good old fashion "doom and gloom" rant by the Chipster.

You hit the nail on the head!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that line about costs going up because of the extra f/a. Using some "pulled from thin air" numbers - f/a pay & benes of $100 per hour, 350 miles flown per hour, 151 seats - you get the following CASM increase:

0.19 cents or less than 2 tenths of a cent.

A pax paying a $70 fare sitting in ONE of those extra 18 seats will cover that.

Actually, on a selfish lever I hope Chip is right about the UCT or ICT or whatever it is. That is possibly the only hope that we at US have. I just wish I could be optomistic. As I posted on the US forum, I can't see why anybody would want to buy us when they can wait for the liquidation and pick the pieces they want.

Good luck to all of you at UAL...